NO VIDEO this week. I can sense people are tired and simply want to get on with the semester. However, I do want you to keep reading and thinking, so here's a single passage I want you to think about as you read, and respond to with a COMMENT below.
In Book 13, when Odysseus finally lands on Ithaca, he refuses to believe it's actually his home, and even challenges Athena when she assures that it is (she claims to have cast a spell on him, of course). She then responds,
"Ah, that mind of yours! That's why
I can't leave you when you're down and out:
Because you're so intelligent and self-possessed.
Any other man come home from hard travels
Would rush to his house to see his children and wife.
But you don't even want to hear how they are
Until you test your wife, who,
As a matter of fact, just sits in the house..."
Indeed, he only reveals himself to Telemachus when Athena tells him to, and refuses to do the same for his wife. Instead, he wants to
"figure out which way the women are leaning.
We'll test more than one of the servants, too,
And see who respects us and fears us,
And who cares nothing about either one of us
And fails to honor you."
COMMENT: Do these passages seem to contradict much of Odysseus' story about getting home to his wife and family, and of being trapped by other goddesses? Why does he play this strange game of cat and mouse with his family, and why is he so obsessed about figuring out "who respects us and fears us"? How do you read his character in light of this passage, and does it seem consistent with the earlier Odysseus, or is it a strange reveal by the poet? Could this be another 'story' added years later to the narrative...or is this the original story shining through? Or does it all make perfect sense considering our 'cunning' and 'resourceful' hero?
I think these passages certainly contradict Odysseus’s personal narrative of his own story. I think he’s playing this game and wanting to know people’s true intentions because, perhaps by reflecting on how he has spent the last 20 years himself, he feels his homecoming has the potential of going south pretty quickly. Now that his homeland is truly under the soles of his feet, maybe he’s having some doubts on whether he actually wants the responsibilities that comes with it. If there is anything that seems inconsistent, I think it’s the fact that this “cunning” and “godlike” character seems to realize his own vulnerability in this instance. He is willing to follow the plan and rules Athena is laying out to the letter, and I think it’s because she’s one of the few individuals who knows the whole truth about him and doesn’t condemn him for it. I mean, she called him a wily bastard, and I’m pretty sure it was meant as a compliment.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree, Athena is wild in her admiration for him, since he 'acts' like a god. But that's a double-edged compliment, since gods don't generally have human emotions, and can be cruel and vindictive since they know they're superior to the humans around them. And she even praises him for not running to his wife and son like a thousand other men would do. Which begs the question: WHY DOESN'T HE? AS you suggest, perhaps he doesn't want his story to end, and he knows this is the end. He has to come home and lay down roots now. His stories end at home. So he plans one last shebang to immortalize his legend. The question is, how much does Athena have to do with this, and how much is it all his inspiration?
DeleteGloria Evans
ReplyDeleteI think that he behaves this way because he has been on the road so long that he is not used to being surrounded by people he can trust. Although he had his men, he has still constantly been stuck in situations where he has needed to outwit or out-trick his enemies. That being said, I wonder how much he actually wanted to come home. After all, he shacked up with how many ladies on the way home? I think he craved the safety of home and the comfort of his riches, but I think that he is unable to shut off his survivor mode. Truly, with the history of Greek tragedy and betrayal, I don’t blame him for being on edge.
Yes, he's become deeply paranoid, though it's not clear WHY he has. Who has betrayed him along the way? Not his crew, not the women he sleeps with, and not even the gods (except for Poseidon, but that was his fault, not a betrayal). I wonder why he's so suspicious of women in general? We see woman after woman taking care of him...so where does it come from?
DeleteIn my opinion this passage without a doubt contradicts what he has been preaching throughout the entire book. I think that he has become so committed to a life of survival and barbarianism that he has dug himself a whole that perhaps he does not know how to dig himself out of. Maybe he has done some things that he knows he regrets and he does not know how to face his family knowing what he has done. For example, sleeping around as much as he has. I feel as if he knows that if he returns home then this is all over, his journey, everything that he has done. I do not think that he wants that to happen and I feel that is the reason that he is so reluctant to return home.
ReplyDeleteYes, and I wonder if we could make the argument that the years at sea have corrupted him? Maybe he was once crafty and loyal at Troy but he has slowly become a 'pirate,' so to speak, and by the time he gets home, he really is a completely different hero--debased and broken? Maybe that's why we see two different Odysseuses? He continues to see himself as he once was, but clearly he's a very different man now. Maybe another reason why no one recognizes him once he gets home (except the dog, who can still smell him, perhaps)?
DeleteBrady Pyle
ReplyDeleteOdysseus feels as if everybody owes him a great deed or favor, even though it is never explained why. For example, when his original crew members were still living, he would send this to explore the new islands before he unloaded himself and his belongings off of the ship. He was never afraid to sacrifice the lives of others to protect his own. Odysseus feels as if he has to test his wife and son’s loyalty because he wants to make sure their central focus is still only upon himself, which shows his selfish side. He has been gone for twenty years, but he still wants them to be obsessed with his whereabouts, and they are. At the beginning of Book 13, Odysseus says, “When I reach home/ May I find my wife and loved ones unharmed” (Book 13 lines 44-45). Here, he is worried about his family, but once Athena tells him that he has landed in Ithaca, he is not worried about checking in on their well-being. Rather, he goes to see the man who has cared for his swine to gain insight into his family's loyalty and devotion to him after years of his absence. This scene relates back to the question: Was Odysseus truly stuck away from home for twenty years, or was he finding little short stops along the way to avoid and enjoy his freedom? Once he arrives home, he still is not rushing to see his family which makes me question his intentions more than I did at the beginning of his tellings. I like that Athena uses the word “cunning” again when she praises his idea to look into his family’s loyalty. It shows that he is deceitful in his stories which do not always tell the full truth.
Yes, great points: in the end, he remains a selfish hero, who is obsessed by his own "brand" or legacy. I think he feels estranged from his family, and views them as strangers now. He doesn't know if they'll support him and really be on his side, so he has to test them to make sure. He has a hard time accepting that people have their own ideas and opinions, and that some of them might be better than his own. He tends to want to kill anyone who defies him, and the suitors are an extreme example of this. He also is very keen that no one contradict HIS story...which might be why he leans on Athena so heavily. Who is going to contradict her?
DeleteI think Odysseus just needs action in his life. He has spent 20 years at war and coming home where there is no action kills him. He wants to start drama so he can be the center of attention and never be forgotten. Odysseus is a very unreliable character and this passage definitely contradicts what he has said before. First of all, he never wants to figure out others intentions. He acts off instinct most of the time and it is never good. The fact that he says that he needs to investigate the servants shows that maybe that idea did not come from him. He would never take time and think about certain situations that occurred before, so why should he start acting that way now.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good point: he IS a very instinctual character, despite his insistence that he's cunning and crafty. He can be, but it takes him a bit to get there. So I find it interesting that his response here seems to be instinctual (I have to kill all the suitors, damn them!), but it's also carefully planned and builds slowly. So we get the two versions of Odysseus here, the hothead and the plotter.
DeleteOdysseus seems to like the idea of being the hero and throughout his narrative it shows in ways like we discussed in class. When he returns home he is back to the place where he is supposed to be known and worshiped like a god. Not being home in 20 years, many people don't know what he looks like, or wouldn't see the younger Odysseus they once knew in him. I feel like when he returned home he expected it to be a grand return where people rushed to meet him, but no one recognized him old and looking like a begger became over looked. Having his pride damaged, Athena becomes the reason that no one recognizes him for the benefit of the narration. This doesn't sound like the same Odysseus that we were first introduced to when he was wanting to go home.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think he expected more, and built it up in his mind...knowing, too, that it could never be as grand as his previous adventures. So he's creating more drama for himself, and creating the slaughter at the end which is probably unnecessary--and certainly immoral!
DeleteHey, but are we surprised? Odysseus is always saying that he wants to jus get home but when whenever the time comes to make a move it's kind he does everything he can to stall (especially if we take the gods out of the equation). To be honest, I just think that he is super selfish and really only cares about being perceived as a hero. I think this because he does everything he can to make himself seem not responsible for his own actions (like blaming the gods). Additionally, the way that he talks about himself just makes him sound like a douche (sorry but it's true). He really lacks any morals and completely contradicts himself all throughout the text.
ReplyDelete